The Civil War: taught in schools & freely discussed here

[Daniel Buck]

For some reason, my message was deleted from the Blog Post series titled", "Confederate Soldiers Served Too."  Here it is again.  Summary: the suggestion had been made that the Civil War was not being allowed to be taught in schools, a suggestion I found not only ludicrous, but prompted by a misunderstanding of a vague remark someone else had posted.  Think of the telephone game -- galloping misunderstandings. 

Dan

PS  I do not monitor messages.  Post what you wish.

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Fredda,
Assisted by my guide-dog Google, I tried searching the words < Civil War taken out of classroom > and the only hit of interest was Sue's post here, at TW.  It was no. 3.  From a single blog post to urban legend in 24 hours.  A new record.

I tried variations on those words.  Nada.  Snopes.com, the clearinghouse for urban legends large and small came up blank. 

But of course you yourself never said that the Civil War had been 86'd from American classrooms.  What you said was "which is one reason I can't stand that all of these things have been or are being taken out of the classroom."  I'm not sure what "all these things" are, but now the no. 3 hit on Google is that the Civil War is not being taught in American school. 

Of course, there are thousands of elementary, middle, etc., schools in the United States and no one can say with certainty what each one is doing on any given day with its curriculum.  For all I know today there's a school somewhere teaching that the world is flat, or that employs a teacher who cannot define a dangling modifier, or that allows children at recess to play rugby.  It's a big country.

Now, for the bright side.  While stumbling about looking for evidence of the Civil War being hosed out of the schools and finding only the the original TW post that launched my search I did find hundreds of references to the Civil War being taught in schools, including this informative interview with James McPherson and other historians:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture-society/of-course-the-civil-wa...

Dan

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[Murray A. Gewirtz]

I was told by none other than a Yankee blue-belly soldier himself that slavery was not the cause of the Civil War! No, I am not that old ... he was actually a reenactor a number of years ago at an event at Grant's Tomb---I think it was, in NYC. I was actually shocked that a guy portraying a Union soldier was expounding such an opinion to the public, and briefly engaged him in debate, expressing some of the arguments that have been made, and well, over here, as well as others, to show that the dispute over slavery was the most important of the various causes of the war: slavery and its expansion or restriction had been a continual item of contention between the regions since the time of the Constitutional Convention; the Union had come close to being sundered a number of times over the issue, and secession of states threatened and averted by a number of compromises; bloody wars were fought, as in Kansas, between proponents of the expansion or delimitation of slavery; Court decisions such as Dredd Scott let slave owners  recapture their "property" in free areas and riled up abolitionists to a fever pitch; the extremist abolitionists such as John Brown and his followers would and did resort to any means, including terrorism and murder, to fight slavery; the election of Republican Abe Lincoln on a platform of precluding the expansion of slavery was the last straw that led to the secession of Southern states.

 The Union initially entered the war to keep those states in the Union on the principle that the Union was indissoluble, but ultimately made the abolition of slavery a chief motive for the war (out of both political and moral reasons). See Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation and Gettysburg Address.

Now that we've settled the Civil War, let's discuss something less controversial---like should state governments display the Confederate flag?  Uh-oh!

[Melvin Graf]

Dan, thanks for an unhindered discussion.  Other than BBB, I can't imagine why anyone on here would feel the need to "preapprove" someone else's comments.  -Mel

[Daniel Buck]

Sue,

Not to worry, I'm a crochety skeptic not a scholar, and I self-inflict myself with careless mistakes at an alarming rate.

The other day, I read about someone receiving from a Catholic organization a few decades ago an award named in honor of Pope John XXIII.  When I wrote it up later -- from memory, always a mistake -- I said the man had been given the award by Pope John XIII.  (Two errors in one sentence.  Neither pope gave the award, and Pope John XIII died in the 10th century.  Oops.)

Don't know if you've ever read it, but William W. Freehling wrote an excellent, two-volume history, The Road to Disunion: I, Secessionists at Bay, 1776-1854, and II, Secessionists Triumphant, 1854-1861.  A brilliant, panoramic history of the forces leading up to secession.

Dan

PS Mel, thanks.

[Melvin Graf]

Pat, unfortunately the flag of the United States and the cross are also used by the Klan.  We should not condemn the symbols, just those who misuse them.  -Mel

[Stan H]

I must agree with Pat S on this.

As a person that helped register voters in the deep south in 1963 (and ended up in the hospital for over two weeks because of it) I strongly resent what that flag became. True, during the War, it was an honored flag. But the radicals, like the Klan, crapped all over that once great flag. Today, many of us do not see it for what it may have been, only what it became.

 

This nation has only only Flag,,, Old Glory,,, and long may she wave.

 

 

[Chuck Sawyer]

One thing should be noted in this conversation.  Living in the south in the 50-60s, the Civil War is not over, yet !  They may not teach it in school, but at home it is taught.  Some people are still called 'Damn Yankees' !   I happen to think it was for States' Rights as it had a direct bearing upon slavery & the business of the south, cotton !  In our History, only one war has come as close to tearing us apart...that being Vietnam...but he Civil War remains number one.

[Daniel Buck]

Sooner or later, all Civil War discussions metamorph into a wrangle on the Confederate flag.  That metamorphosis seems to have arrived.  All we have left to discuss now is, was Sherman a hero or a war criminal, and was Gone With the Wind the greatest movie ever made or unwatchable nostalgic kitsch.  (I saw Gone With on television in Argentina, dubbed in Spanish.  Sort of changes the mood.)

Best, Dan

[Melvin Graf]

One thing is for sure, this issue won't be settled here  :)  -Mel

[Jim Holden]

Fell into a fascination with the Civil War in 1963 after reading Bruce Catton & have spent almost 50 years reading about. However as a military person my interest is in the battles, tactics, combat leaders, and all the decisions that were made that resulted in wins & losses. We can endlessly discuss Gettysburg & other battles, but we will never know the truth about why so many young men fought.
I believe they fought because their States, Towns & neighbors called to the Flag(s). There were a varied number of battle flags, state flags, individual unit flags involved, captured, held up as trophies and as precious to the young men of each side. The traditional Stars & Bars wasn't very significant then and it's place in history has been magnified.
Anyone who continues to inflame the passions for which hundreds of thousands died, including mt GGGrandfather, does a disservice to those young men. Honor their sacrifice fighting for their homes & beliefs.
If your children or grandchildren aren't getting enough American history in school, teach it to them yourselves from the respected historians source materials.
Thanks & good night.

[Ralph Bernklow]

Just as "states rights" were the buzz words used to get southerners to fight, so also were "save the union" the buzz words to get northerners to fight. The New York "draft riots" show that abolishing slavery was not a universal motive for support of the war