Simple Question for any Spanish speaking folks.

[Chuck Sawyer]

Howdy:

              Now that simple greeting implies many things, even today.   That's part of my question to you

real 'Histiory Buffs'....I toy with History but have not read enough, yet, to be considered that good.

 

              Here's the question:  If his name was Francisco Vasquez de Coronado in 1540 and he explored Arizona, New Mexico, Kansas and Texas looking for those 'Seven Cities' why is the 'Coronado' Trail', in eastern Arizona, named 'The Coronado' Trail.  In Europe at this time ( 1540 ),  I believe it was common pratice to display a difference in names indicating location to help sort through all the same names.  Thusly, 'de Coronado'....!   Any help will be appreciated, for this has cost me some sleep at night !

 

Thank you,

Chuck

[Stan H]

It has been a long time since high school Spanish class, but I think in this case, the "de Coronado" means "of Coronado" just as in Arabic the "al" as in "Saddam Hussian al Tikrit" means Saddam Hussian of Trikit (a town). In German we have "von" and "zu" meaning about the same.

 In other words, Francisco Vasquez came from Coronodo.

 

I am sure if I am incorrect, smarter cowboys than I will point that out.

[Chuck Sawyer]

STAN:

            This is my same thinking and this means technically 'The Trail' should be named the Vasquez Trial.  I'm hoping we can now obtain some further confirmation on the 'de Coronado'

meaning that many countries in Europe utilized.  Thank You !

[Aurora]

During the Spanish era in the Southwest, Coronado's route to New Mexico did not have a name as later colonizers and explorers used easier routes, especially via the Rio Grande. The current "Coronado's Trail" has to be an American designation. I'm not sure when the designation was applied, however. Spanish settlements in the Interior Provinces (as present-day northern Mexico and the U.S. Southwest--from Arizona to Texas-- was called) were widely scattered, mainly San Antonio and La Bahia in the east, Santa Fe and El Paso del Norte in the center and Tubac and later Tucson in the west. The Spanish government was constantly looking for easier routes to connect their far-flung northern settlements, especially for an easy route from Santa Fe to California (that dang Grand Canyon kept getting in the way). Juan Bautista de Anza in the 1770s blazed the El Camino del Diablo from Fronteras to California, and of course the main supply route of the El Camino Real along the Rio Grande. The route Coronado took was difficult terrain and no major Indian settlements to spur the usage of that route. Father Pedro Font's diaries have been published (and a new expanded version is coming out next month by the University of Oklahoma Press) as well as plenty of studies on the Rio Grande El Camino Real.

 

I hope this helps. If you notice my avatar, it is of Spanish soldiers that were stationed at the Presidio de San Agustín del Tucson. Usually the names were of a saint name followed by the Indian place name. Other books for an introduction to Spanish history of the Southwest include David Weber's The Spanish Frontier (by Yale University) and Max Morehead's The Presidio (by University of Oklahoma).

[Chuck Sawyer]

Aurora:

                So this implies the Americans misnamed the Trail for simplicity sake, right ?   The other factor is the name is easier since there was a bit of prejudice even then. By the way, El Camino Real was first in New Mexico via the mighty Rio Grande, correct ?

[Aurora]

Yes, the original El Camino Real (Royal Road) was the one heading from Mexico City to Santa Fe, with the last portion following the Rio Grande, first established in 1598. As more settlements were established, other government roads came off the main artery. The road to the Spanish settlements in Texas was established by the late 1600s, and the road veered off northwestward to the California settlements by the mid 1770s. (This last was the one marked by Juan Bautista de Anza and recorded in Father Pedro de Font's diaries.)

And you're correct in the prejudice against anything Spanish or Mexican in New Mexico and Arizona, which was one of the reasons holding up gaining statehood. The 1903 Beveridge Report is an eye opener on the prejudices of the day. I'm still not sure when the designation "Coronado's Trail" came into use, except perhaps in the 20th century with the carving out of automobile roadways. I do know that Highway 191 (which used to be Highway 666) is now from Morenci to Alpine is designated "Coronado's Trail." I hope this info helps.

[Joe Bethancourt]

"de Coronado" may mean "from Coronado" or it may indicate landed nobility of some sort. Incidentally, in German usage the "von" or "zu" alone means little in that regard. "Von und zu" is the biggie here. Anyhoo, "Vasquez" is probably the family name.

[Joe Bethancourt]

And another side note: "al" in Arabic is the article i.e. "the" and is used every time a noun is used.

[Chuck Sawyer]

Thank you all for your information and comments !   I've received much more than I ever anticipated.  So I guess the next question will be...are they going to rename 'The Trail'...

'The Vasquez Trail'...?

[Daniel Buck]

Chuck,

Foootnote 240, here

http://books.google.com/books?id=-He_prc5ybUC&pg=PA319&dq=%...

 

has a brief history of Francisco Vazquez de Coronado's name, the last part of which came from the village of Cornado  or Coronado, in Spain.  There's variation even among Spanish-speaking historians as to the short version of the explorer's name, Coronado, Vasquez, Vazquez de Coronado all being used.  It's certainly not incorrect for the trail name to be shortened to the Coronado Trail.  That's normally how people end up referring to things that have involved names.

 

Dan

[Daniel Buck]

Chuck,

Correction, it's footnote 264, which should be on the right-hand side if the page the URL brings up.

 

Dan