I don't know if this has been brought up before but assuming that these photos are of who they claim to be...Is it possible that they could have been taken on the same day when Brady arrested Billy, Fred Waite, and Atanacio Martinez in 1878? Billy and Waite were under arrest for a couple days. From what I've read, Brady let Martinez go so there wouldn’t' have been a photo of him. . I know it's been pointed out before that "Billy" looks strange like he's in handcuffs, so it might be possible that he was under arrest and they tried to hide the cuffs for the photo. It also looks like someone just threw him in the chair and took the photo. I think it looks a lot like him especially in the bottom half of the face, his shoulders, and hands. I'm interested in your guys’ opinions.
There were probably dozens of photos taken of the Kid over the last couple of years of his life & this could well be 1 of them. He did like the ladies & you always gave your current girlfriend a photo of yourself & carried a photo of her. All my girlfriends, at one time or another, had an 8X10 & a wallet-size photo of me, & I had at least 1 8X10 & a wallet size of each one. This was 50+ years ago, which was a lot closer to the Kid's time than we are now. I don't know if that's a current tradition or not.
The problem, of course, is provenance. I currently own an S&W #2 revolver which was probably owned by John Wesley Hardin. It's been authenticated, so far as possible, by Leon Metz, Wes's biographer. The problem is, I don't know where it was or who had it between probably 1874 when Wes was captured in Pensacola & abt 1972 when it was found & bought off a junk table at a gun show in SW Georgia, abt 60 mi from where Wes was living when he was captured.
I suspect the well known photo of Fred Waite was taken in the general time frame of the LCW. His age looks right and I don't think his clothing is characteristic of the life-style he enjoyed back in Indian Territory.
I have no idea who is in the middle picture. It certainly wasn't Brady in 1878 as he was in 50's. This guy is much younger. Also, I see no reason to believe it's Brady as about half the guys in photos from that era look like this.
The guy on the left is intriguing but I think Anthony Martin has dated his clothing from a period that make it not consistent with being taken during the LCW. Also, I have seen zero evidence of even a possibility of it being the Kid.
I think the chair they are all posing beside was widely used for a significant number of years and it shows up in a LOT of old tintypes.
The two men are the same man. I've flipped mine so that they are orientated the same as is McCubbin's. Big tie, unique hair style, military bearing, Masonic emplem, belt buckel to one side, as horsemen often do.
Does he look 50? Hard to tell, but they are the same man.
Upon close inspection of my tintype of a standing Brady that "hook" in the wave of his hair is a blemish on the original tintype. The tintype is quite small. It's locked away in a bank vault or I'd measure it.
Chris: I also find the "Billy" photo intriguing. The whole thing looks like someone messed with it in some low key photo editing program. His overcoat looks strange too, more like someone threw a tarp over his shoulders. But until someone comes around with some story of where and when it was taken, all of the evidence it right in front of us...
I do see how Steve's Brady photo differs from the other two now. The tassels on the chair are way too short unless the photographer had two (what is "Billy" sitting on?). But the Fred and "Billy" photos look the same to me if they were better quality and someone didn't tamper with them. Billy looks the right age. I can’t' vouch for the clothing, as I am not by any means an expert.
I'm no expert on period clothing but what I was referring to is that Fred Waite came from a pretty "good" family in what I believe is now Pauls Valley, Oklahoma. He achieved some prominance in politics when he returned home after his New Mexico adventures. In this photo he's wearing chaps and is just generally dressed more like someone living and working on the frontier.
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I was saying that I can't explain "Billy's" clothing, as you were saying that it was dated inconsistant with the LCW.
Gotcha! I misunderstood which guy you were referring too.
I think the "kid" could be the kid. Note the parallelagram on the right side of that photo and then compare it to the top of the stool that Waite is leaning upon. Are they the same? The stool that Brady is leaning upon is a different item. These stools with the braid were sold by a company in the mid-west and many photographers used them. They bought a photographer's kit and I believe the posing stools were part of it.
That photograph of Brady is mine and Sallie collected it.