Old West and the United Kingdom

[Rickman Fish]

I have recently been surprised by the numbers of people, the authenticity in costuming, and in Old West towns, when I was introduced to an Old West Forum based in the UK.

This may be old news to some of you but it is new to me.

Check out this forum, I find it amazing and very interesting and the people on the forum are great.

The Shootists

 

Dusless trails,

Fish

Old West Actors For Hire

[Rickman Fish]

Ha Ha, I have to agree. Well, not that it would bother me so much as it would the Ladies.
I have often thought about offering a service such as you describe that the "movies" do to the clothing. Or better yet, just a thread that would give advise as to the best methods to achive the best, various results.
We have tried rolling a couple of new looking characters of ours in the dirt but it isn't very long lasting.

Fish
Old West Actors For Hire

[Kevin Hogge]

Jeff, electricity didn't come to Tombstone until 1902. The only telephone in Tombstone in 1881 was at the Tombstone Mining Office in the Gird Block and it ran specifically to one place which I believe was the Tombstone Mill in Contention City. There were no telephones for public use until, I think, 1902 as well.

[Kevin Hogge]

You're right about the amenities Jeff. Tombstone had a world class French restaurant and some of the surviving menus from the restaurants and hotels are very impressive. The Cosmopolitan Hotel, the Grand Hotel, the Oriental Saloon and others were very upscale in their fixtures and decor. Designer cloths and boots were always available. And Tombstone attracted some of the finest Acting Troops of the day. In many ways Tombstone was very upscale for a town only three or four years old.
Maybe it was something about the geography, but electricity and phones were a long time coming. The City Fathers tried for years to get a rail spur, the closest it got during the boom years was Contention City. Even running the water lines in the early 1880's was a challenge. Good thought Jeff, you're going to make me do some research on this....

[Gay Mathis]

http://www.desertusa.com/Cities/az/tomb.html

Excerpts only:

By 1881 Tombstone's population was between 6,000 and 7,000 people. In January, the first telegraph was connected to all points of the Tombstone region and the same month, Cochise County, where Tombstone resides, was created making Tombstone an officially incorporated city.

In January 1902 the first electric lights and telephone system for Tombstone were in place.

[Rickman Fish]

Hi Jeff,
This certainly is an interesting debate.
I am not an historian of any era but I do read quite a bit and favor the non-fiction reads more than the fiction. (I do like Louis Lamour however)
The differences we are debating may very well lie in one’s definition of "clean".
I will relate to you where my definition of clean is derived.
As a grunt in the Army while stationed in the fields (or jungles depending on the day) of South Vietnam, I learned a different definition of clean and a different "normal".
I use this example because the geographic areas where I found myself, were not so different than the American west.
Despite the heavy equipment of war, the climatic conditions were very similar to parts of the US.
We were hard pressed to stay anything close to the clean we knew prior to our arrival into the country.
Dust, mud, flys, wind, rain, heat, and work made it impossible to replicate the clean that we grew up with.
We washed and shaved, out of a bowl of cold water or under an upturned water can that drained what seemed to be ice cold water over our dirty bodies. An experience that a person avoided as long as possible. Once "clean", the cycle immediately began again. Sweat, dust, mud, BO, flys, etc.
Our clothes were laundered somewhere, I don't know where, but delivered every week or two by helicopter. When we got them, we shook the dust off of them, dawned on these fresh duds and went about our day. It didn't take long (hours) before they fell into the "dirty" category. There wasn't any complaints though, because this was our new normal and we couldn't do anything about it if we wanted to. Everyone was in the same situation so it wasn't just an individual’s normal.
If we were to go into town, which was about as much a treat for us as it would have been for a trail ridden cowboy, we, at the stiff age of 18, were going for the girls. Not that we necessarily ever found anyone but because the possibility was there We put on the cleanest of our dirty garments and possibly stood under the 2 minute downpour of icy water that flowed out of the water can, just to feel cleaner than we were and to look like we were making an effort.

This firsthand experience can easily be acquainted to the pioneers, the cowboys, the gunslingers, the whores, bankers, shopkeepers, and probably most everyone else including the wealthy of the American Victorian era.
Do I know for sure? No. But logic tells me that it couldn't have been much better considering among so many other things, the era. Vietnam happened just 40 years ago! There were some pretty high tech stuff somewhere even then, like showers, hot water, electricity, refrigeration and the like.
So you see, when you eliminate the essentials that we grew up with, it really isn't too difficult to concede that conditions and the times wouldn't allow for "clean" as we know it.
I haven't taken anything you have said as insulting. I guess we're both trying to do the same thing. Get each other to see things from a different perspective. My perspective has not really been established because of a mind-set of watching Hollywood movies, although I watched many of them, my perspective is based on real life experiences that fall out of the norm of our modern upbringing.

Anyway,
Dustless trails m'friend
Fish
Old West Actors For Hire

[Danny Meadows]

OK, how about this ? There is a great "saloon" a bunch of us go to after a SASS match for lunch and drinks. It's called The Dog and Duck ...on a typical Saturday you'll find an assortment of very clean yuppie types, biker types...some more hardcore and dirtier than others, then my SASS group arrives in costume some look like they came off the trail a little grimy and some look like a Roy Rogers B-Western...what I'm trying to say is maybe it was like this in the Old West towns....you just had a variety of people on the streets in town.

side note; I've enjoyed and found this discussion to be informative !

[Rickman Fish]

Hi Danny,
Good analogy! And I think that it holds true...in town. But back at the homestead or on the trail moving cattle and the sort, do you think the same analogy would apply?

Dustless trails?
Fish

Old West Actors For Hire

[Danny Meadows]

On any trail riding I've done for fun or taking riding lessons ...it only takes a couple of hours to get dirty and smelly. So , on a cattle drive it would be next to impossible to stay clean. No portable showers ala City Slickers ! :-) maybe, they heated a kettle of water and wiped off the dust or jumped in a creek when they could stand the temperature.

The homestead of my wife's grandmother didn't get indoor plumbing until 1976. She recalls the washstand with the porcelin water pitcher and bowl and a quick sponge bath or wiping down with a wet cloth. Hot baths in the metal washtub with water heated on the wood stove occured Saturday night before Church...
therefore we obtained the phrase Saturday Night Bath.

note: homestead info from the wife and mother-in-law....geez, the things one will do for history.

[Rickman Fish]

The Saturday Night Bath, probably consisted of more than one person using the same bath water with a little more hot water added to it. Youngest last.

[Danny Meadows]

Shush , don't let Al Gore hear that!!!! <]:-)

[Unkle Sherman]

'Don't throw the baby out with the bath water'?

A large tub was filled with water that had been drawn/carried and heated.

Bath time started with the man of the house, then the sons and other men in the home.

Then the women and children got their turn in the bath water, and lastly the babies were bathed. All in the same water.
Because baths were only taken once a in a while, the water was so dirty by the time the babies were bathed, it would have been easy to lose
someone in it.

[Rickman Fish]

Yeah, that's pretty discusting. Expecially for the women and kids. Well, the kids could have cared less but those women must have been cringing at the thought of crawling into by then, luke warm gray water.