King Fisher & Ben Thompson

[Nat Love]

Can you tell me just what was the relationship between King Fisher & Ben Thompson? Where they friends? Acquaintances? I've read accounts that state they where friends and others that state there was some enmity between them. What's your view? Thanks Nat.

[Mark Mellon]

From what I've heard, they detested each other. One common version I've read about their deaths was that Fisher brought Thompson to a music hall in San Antonio with the intention of having him assassinated, but got caught in the crossfire. It was odd that Thompson went there in the first place with Fisher since (as I recall) he'd murdered one of the men who owned the music hall before that, shot him dead in the doorway of the place. All this is just off the top of my head, of course. Others on the site are probably better informed. Short answer: no, I don't think they much cared for each other.

[Bob 'Buckshot' Bradley]

Nat,
it's good to see you here. This photograph below, was taken in the studio of H.R. Marks, of Austin, Texas. Ben signed it "to my friend King Fisher" and gave it to him the very day they were killed. The blood stained photograph was found on Fishers body.

[Nat Love]

Hi all, good to hear from you all. Very interesting I think the picture is really great and it really shows how difficult it is to determine what was the relationship. I been thinking about somehing I read that states they were drinking together for sometime before they went to the music hall. I believe that this was not all together friendly. What I struggle with is why then would they spend any time in each others company. Nat

[Chris Lampe]

Thanks Buckshot!

I've been wanting to see that photograph since Bob McCubbin mentioned it in an article in True West magazine.

[Marshall Trimble]

It was March 11, 1884. Ben Thompson, city marshal of Austin, and John King Fisher, acting sheriff of Uvalde County, were enjoying the night life in San Antonio. Both men had checkered careers on both sides of the law. Thompson had been drinking heavily on the train from Austin. The two met in Austin for the first time on March 10, 1884 and traveled by train to San Antonio.
Until then both had lived charmed lives and other than Hardin, who was in prison, were two of the West's deadliest gunfighters.
The went to a play then afterwards headed for Billy Simm's bar. Simms and policeman Jake Coy join them and they go upstairs to take in the show. Thomson ordered another drink, and Fisher a cigar. Then Thompson made some remark about the two-year-old killing of Jack Harris when he (Thompson) was San Antonio city marshal. Thompson was acquitted but resigned his office.
Simm's co-owner Joe Foster joins the group and Thompson calls him a thief and follows up by saying that he, meaning Foster was who he really wanted to shoot. After his remarks the tension mounted.

Playing the peacemaker, Fisher suggests they all go downstairs and have another drink. Thompson went to shake Foster's hand and the latter refused to shake.
Thompson pulled his pistol and struck Foster across the face with it. Coy tried to grab Thompson's pistol and in the confusion it went off.
Then it got "western" as all hands went for their guns and some 20 shots were fired. Both Fisher and Thompson were hit several times. Foster was wounded in the leg.
But there were questions: Did Thompson lure Fisher to San Antonio? Some writers have suggested this but the best guess is they met by chance and being of the same ilk, hit it off. What began as a night out drinking turned fatal.
Or, Did Fisher lure Thompson into a trap? This has been speculated too. (Writers love to speculate) Fisher and Foster were friends and perhaps Fisher lured Thompson to the murder scene. This is hard to buy because if he did, why was he standing close to Thompson when the shooting started? Best guess is Fisher thought he could patch up the differences between Foster and Thompson but didn't figure on Thompson being so billigerant a character.
Thompson was probably assassinated by Foster's friends. An autopsy showed the men were shot from above and to the left so the initial shots couldn't have come from Simms and Coy.
Fisher and Thompson never had a chance to pull their pistols. Foster's leg wound came when he shot himself while drawing his weapon.
It's like the hidden shooters were given a signal by either Simms, Coy or maybe even Foster.
Marshall

[Nat Love]

Thanks !!!!!!!!! Nat.

[Mike Franklin]

When the shooting was investigated in Austin, Thompson's body was closely examined there, it was said that the killers shot Thompson with .44-40 rifles. As both rifles and revolvers used the same ammo, it's kinda hard to figure just how they knew that rifles were used?
BTW, although the place is well known among Western History Fans, there is neither plaque nor marker showing where the killings occurred.

[Mark Boardman]

Mike and co.,

A couple of Thompson experts I've spoken with feel there was no real animosity between Ben and Fisher. They had no history. They traveled in different circles, in different parts of Texas. And if there had been bad blood, Fisher wouldn't have accepted Thompson's invitation to do some pub crawling.

There's also speculation that if King Fisher wanted Ben Thompson to pay for the Foster killing, Fisher would have done the deed himself. Up front and personal.

In our "conspiracy theory" world, it's easy to try to delve deep, looking for hidden motives and actions when, in fact, the surface story is just what it appears to be--the truth. In the murder of Thompson and Fisher, that's probably the case--the two went into a saloon/theater that Thompson would have avoided had he been sober. Foster's friends took him out, and killed Fisher by accident in the fussilade.

Best,
Mark Boardman

[Mike Franklin]

I've tended to agree with this view.
There was plenty of bad blood about the killing of Jack Harris, the owner of the Vaudeville Variety House, where the killings occurred. No matter what else might be true about the shooting of Thompson and Fisher, Thompson’s going back to that saloon was a poor bit of judgment.

[Nat Love]

Hi all, just finished reading 'Men Who Wear the Star. The Story of the Texas Rangers' by Charles M. Robinson for the second time. He presents a third party veiw that both King and Thompson were close. He also presents a legend that old Ben shot a circus tiger that was used to make Kings fancy Bengal Tiger chaps. Maybe not fact but very interesting none the less. I would like to see more modern historical books devoted to both men. I find the comments very interesting thanks for taking the time to respond.

[C. F. 'Charley' Eckhardt]

Ben Thompson was autopsied in Austin by Dr. Goodall Wooten. Every slug that hit Ben came from above & behind, hitting him in the shoulders & upper back & either ending up in his belly or groin or exiting there. They were all 200-gr flat-nose .44 Winchester slugs.

Most Texans didn't like the .44-40 in a pistol, though they swore by it in rifles & carbines. This comes from an incident with the 1st pair of .44-40s Colt sent to the Texas Rangers, in 1880. Colt knew most Rangers packed Winchester '73s in .44-40. In 1878 the state bought 2 cases of '73s in that caliber & offered 'em to the Rangers at state cost on a 1st come, 1st serve basis. Both cases sold out in a single day.

The state didn't issue .44-40 ammo so the Rangers had to buy it out of their pockets. They bought bullet molds, Lyman tong-tool reloaders, Berdan primers & powder & reloaded their cases. Berdan primer-pockets were notoriously loose, but in a rifle that often didn't matter so much. The new pistols were loaded with some of that much-reloaded ammo & the 1st shot caused a primer to back out, locking up the gun. The Rangers blamed the gun, not the ammo, & after that you almost couldn't give a Texan a .44-40 revolver.

In 1960, 80 years after that incident, when I put on a badge for the 1st time, I had to buy a pistol. I found a real prize--a factory-nickel, 4" bbl Colt New Service with genuine ivory grips with the gold-plated Colt medallion in them & carved with the steer's head with the red eyes. It was priced at $125, which was reasonable for the gun at the time. It was also a .44-40. The sheriff, my employer, told me to pass it up. "Them damn' .44-40s, you need 'um, they liable to lock up on you," he said. I bought a Colt New Service M1917 in .45 ACP--& have been kicking myself ever since. The grips alone on that .44 are worth over $1000 today, not to mention the fact that a 4" factory-nickel New Service is rare itself.