Is California "True West"?

[Ginny Morgan]

I read somewhere that even though California is as far west as you can get in America that it really is not "Western"? I was thinking about this..When most folk think of the West they think of Texas, Arizona etc...not many folk think of California being wild west even though Los Angeles and San Bernardino were a couple of the wildest towns in the old west..and what about Bodie? Any thoughts on this?

[Ginny Morgan]

O mi god...you hit the nail on the head there! LOl...don't get me started LOL I have traveled a lot in California..there are areas that are very western..

But in the 1800s the towns here were just as wild and wooly..seems like we are most remembered for the gold rush..actually, that brought in so many diverse ethnic groups..I think thay may have something to do with it.

San Francisco has always been seen as more Eastern than Western I think..
San Diego has a very interesting history but still is primarily Spanish flavored
Los Anegeles was very wild..worse than Bodie, actually...

[Jim Catalano]

You Easterners have to remember most Californians are Easterners. Native Californians are rare, my great great grandparents came here by covered wagon. There is not a lot of San Francisco History left due to fire and earthquakes. SF had 3 major fires and a couple of major quakes that nearly destoried the city. The last being the 1906.

In the 1800's most of the buildings were made of wood after a few fires they started building with bricks. Brick structures come a part when the earth shakes. Now there a lot of concrete and glass buildings just waiting for the next big one.

In the gold country towns burn to the ground on a regular bases. So they started building with unreenforced brick with large steel shutters that covered windows and doors of commercial buildings. There are a few of them standing but when the earth shutters, oh well.

I can't speak about LA or SD. California in general has saved a lot of historic we still have the 21 missions dating back to 1776 that start in San diego and reach to Sonoma. They were abandoned by the Spanish in the 1820s.

We do the bast we can when Mother Nature let's us.

[Stan H]

You ladies are omitting some very real "western" areas, events, and personalities.

How about the 49'ers? Hangtown? And Black Bart? Don't forget the legend of Joaquin Murieta. The original "cowboy" was the Californio Vaquero.

There were many very huge ranchos throughout the state. Cattle production was large before Americans ever stepped foot into Texas or Arizona.

Old Yerba Buena (San Francisco) was the hell-raisin' gateway for many of the treasure seekers flooding into the area.

Outlaws, rustling, stagecoach robberies, and various versions of murder and mayhem were not only common, they were part of the substance that built the state.

Californain set the standard for the west.

Can't get much more "True West" than that.

[Unkle Sherman]

I do a first person living history of Isaac Graham.
Mr. Graham, Tennesee moonshiner and cousin of Davy Crockett, was the first person to confront the Mexican government in the 1830's with a band of rowdies to demand independance for California from Mexico.
More about Mr. Graham here

[Eric James]

In 1800 the Kentucky District of Virginia was the West. Before the War of 1812, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin were the Northwest. After the War of 1812, Missouri Territory was called the West, and Nebraska, the Dakotas, and beyond was called the Northwest. By 1830 the West had moved to the Missouri-Kansas border, and everything beyond was the Far West, Southwest, and Northwest. By 1848, the West was anywhere the Sublette and Brent families of early Kentucky & Virginia established their trading forts. By 1849 the Mexican Territory known as California was conquored and became the new West, toward which the military, pioneers, and settlers ventured. In the 1970s, Easterners and Midwesterners who migrated to California were still "moving West." If California isn't True West, it certainly is the ultimate West. Hawaii and the Phillipine territories of America never gained recognition as being the West.

[Carbine]

You all brought up some good points. Being a native Californian I agree with what you've all said. California has always had it's faults(not just the earthquake type).Back in The Old West and even today we've had our fair share of problems just like everywhere and everyone has.
Geographically speaking if you look at a map about half of California lies east of Reno Nevada. That puts Los Angeles and San Diego in the "eastern" United States.
At one time only Texas had more cattle than California. It was a group of California Volunteers that went to Arizona during the Civil War and clashed with Southern Troops at the Battle of Picacho Peak.The Pony Express ran from St. Joseph Missouri to Sacramento California. The Butterfield Stage line had routes in California with many stage stops to change horse's and to feed and rest passengers.
As the saying goes "the more things change the more they remain the same". Even today we've got Gold Prospecters looking for "The Mother Lode" and Rustlers stealing cattle from ranch's and on the open range. I'd say that's "True West".

[Ginny Morgan]

All very good points..Thank you for your responses...

[patrick mark pazen]

Wyatt spent time in San Diego and owned some propery there, to bad he did.nt hang on to it, seems like this would have been a great era to have lived in California.

[Duke_Wayne]

Northern parts of the State seem Western to me. (Placerville, etc.) Western families, such as The Earp family also settled in San Bernardino, as well as the Bay area. Wyatt & Josie also briefly lived in San Diego, in what is known as 'Old Town.' It's a mix of Western as well as South of the Border. I've been to Old Town hundreds of times & really enjoy it. San Diego, California is only 4 hours from Yuma and 5 1/2 hours from Tombstone, so I would call it Western, but would probably put it in a different ctagory from say, Tombstone, Dodge City, Deadwood, and such.

[Gerald T. Ahnert]

In many ways, this is a complex question. It might be also asked "What is a true Westerner?" During my recent two month speaking tour about the Butterfield Overland Mail Company in Arizona, I would sometimes experience the "outsider syndrome" because I was originally from New York State. There is a certain irony in all of this as the original pioneers were all emigrants from someplace else. One of the points I make in my talks is that the Butterfield Overland Mail Company was in almost every way a New York State stage line. John Butterfield was from Utica, New York, as were all the original executives of the line. Even William Ormsby, correspondent for the New York Herald, commented that most of the stage drivers were from New York State. The 1860s census, taken during Butterfield's time, has sixteen of the forty entries on one page listed as being from New York State.

When a winter visitor from New York State drives along Arizona Interstate 8, I wonder if when they see the signs for Mohawk Valley that they realize that the valley and the Mohawk Mountains there were named after Mohawk in Upstate New York? They were named after the Butterfield Overland Mail Company stage station site of Mohawk that was located a few miles north of the road. Five of the twenty-six Butterfield stage stations in Arizona had names associated with New York State. They were Seneca, Oneida, Mohawk, Stanwix, and Kinyon's.

So, when someone visiting Arizona meets someone born there (although someone who has moved there would also qualify) he may define them as a "True Westerner." But if they want to find an original Westerner (excluding Indians) they should go back East and look up what happened to great-great uncle Ned who emigrated to the West.

[C. F. 'Charley' Eckhardt]

Several years ago, out in Arizona, a tourist couple from the northeast--not sure what state--spotted what they decided was a 'true Westerner.'  The guy certainly looked the part--boots, jeans, a yoked shirt, big hat, silver & turquoise bolo tie.  As he later reported on his radio program, commentator Paul Harvey, from Chicago, had to disappoint them.

[Dave McGowan]

What we all think of as "cowboys" learned much of their trade from Californios; such as roping a wild critter at 50 ft. or more with a braided rawhide or hair rope.

And what about the west of Canada? The Calgary Stampede, cattle, coal and furs in what is now Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC. A. Mackenzie, traveling by land, reached the west coast of NA and left his mark at Bella Bella in 1898. Several areas of BC supplied a large part of the worlds gold, mostly by placer in the last part of the 19th centr. Two "Indian" wars in BC, two in other parts of Western Canada and several battles. Cattle rustling, range wars, (of course, the NWMP never allowed any shots to be fired. Right.) Cattle operations from a few hundred head to a hundred thousand.

This doesn't include all of the information I've gathered in my research for my novels, but you all get the idea. None of this took place in the south west; but it did take place in the west.