Holster setup

[David Dick]

Happy New Year everyone! 

I just have a quick question.  I have noticed a few actors have a holster setup where the gun is backward (Wild Bill Elliott and Lee Marvin in The Man Who Shot Libery Valance are the first two that come to min).  Is this a Hollywood thing or did any real gunslingers set their guns up like that?

 

Thanks in advance,

Dave

[anthony martin]

   Well,all of us that study the old west know that it was largely discretionary from town to town depending on the enforced ordinances.Many cities were proud of their tougher ordinances because they viewed it as the march of civilization, even where open carry was a given outside of town.

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[anthony martin]

   The above entry does not represent my own view.I was practically weaned on guns and teach gun safety.I'd prefer to pack either/or my cross draw rig and/or my shoulder holster but have lived out here in Loonville(So. Cal.) for over 20 years now.They even get twitchy if you defend yourself with a calm voice and reasoned argument!

[C. F. 'Charley' Eckhardt]

You guys don't know what 'restrictive gun laws' are.  From 1896 until 1974 a pistol was a 'prohibited weapon' in Texas.  You could not, legally, purchase or own a pistol in Texas.  Not even a Texas Ranger could legally own a pistol in this state.  Of course, the law said you couldn't own a pistol.  It didn't say you couldn't lease one.  In Texas, from 1896 until 1974 you didn't buy a pistol, you leased one for 99 years.  I 'bought' my first pistol shortly after my 21st birthay, back in 1961.  For the next 13 years I never 'owned' a pistol, though a dozen or so went thru my possession.  Every pistol I had I held on a 99-year lease until the Texas Penal Code was re-written and adopted in 1974.

[Murray A. Gewirtz]

Weird, Charley. How did that work? Did you have to pay periodically, or did you pay the entire lease amount up front? And if even a government officer couldn't own a pistol, who were they leased from?

[Lethalrancher]

I am sorry.....but being a life long native born Texan.....I have bought countless (almost) revolvers, pistols, and long arms.....and many from well before 1974......unless someone failed to inform me......I bought'em, and I have no idea of the lease thing......just wondering what is with the thought you could not buy a handgun during the period you mention.....not trying to be argumenitive.....just puzzled what that is all about......Lethalrancher

[William E. Shaw]

It's anecdotal.  A lie to be exact.  None of this squares with the Gun Control Act of 1968 and/or the required BATF form 4473 since that time. Much like other crap claims about center fire ammo handguns I've read on here. There's nothing historically in the Texas penal code on it (I've looked).                                                                                               A Borchardt C-93 7.65x25mm is center fire (can still buy/reload it) no matter what else and is considered a 'weapon'. C-96 Mausers of the same calibre did not have select fire 'til 1931, regardless of what you might see in the 'movies'. Bergmann M-18 SMG's didn't happen 'til 1918... regardless of what ya saw in 'the Mummy' either. It's stuff like this that makes me shake my head about this forum and not post here much anymore.

[Buck Grizzly]

Yep I've been looking for and asking around to Lethalrancher, but everybody who has lived in Texas their whole life (as a gun owner/hunter, etc...) doesn't have a clue as to what Charley is talking about. Is there some documentation on this Charlie? Several life long Texans are curious about this claim.

[C. F. 'Charley' Eckhardt]

The Texas penal code adopted in 1896 declared a pistol a 'prohibited weapon.'  However, the 'leasing' process was just exactly like buying a pistol, so 99.999% of the people who 'bought' pistols in Texas in that period never realized they were actually 'leasing' the pistol for 99 years.  If you didn't read and understand the penal code you didn't realize you were not 'buying' a pistol, because you couldn't legally 'buy' one in Texas.  The distinction, however, was made clear in police academies and law schools, if nowhere else.

Once the pistol was an 'antique'--65 years old--you could 'own' it.  In 1896 a 65-year-old pistol was a 1 or 2 shot flintlock or caplock.  By 1974, an 'antique' was a Borchardt semi/full auto made before 1899  or any number of other weapons. 

 

However, you were permitted to carry a pistol, so long as it was in your 'saddlebags or saddle pockets,' if you were a 'bona-fide traveler.'  The evolution of 'bona-fide traveler' is a long story. 

[Murray A. Gewirtz]

What??? xxx@@!!!&#!! If "the 'leasing' process was exactly like buying a pistol," what in the world was the purpose or sense of the law prohibiting purchase? Where'd they get the talmudic pedants who crafted such a statute? Also, what are the answers to my questions from yesterday?

[C. F. 'Charley' Eckhardt]

Since firearms dealers are federally licensed, the state had no control over them.  They had to be state-licensed, as well, & they were--to sell rifles & shotguns.  However, because of the federal licensing, the state couldn't prohibit them from keepng pistols on the premises.  It could say 'You can't sell 'em,' but apparently the legislature never thought about dealers 'leasing' pistols.

As far as why such a law was passed--who understands the minds of politicians?  It was at the height of the fence-cutting wars.  The same legislature that made it illegal to 'own' a pistol also made it a felony to be off your own property or property under your control (leased or rented land) and an instrument capable of cutting wire.  I don't know that anyone actually went to Huntsville over that, but 'felony possession of wirecutters' was a heckuva good 'holding charge' while you found out what else the guy had been up to.  If you did a 'wingspread' search of a vehicle and the guy had a pair of ordinary pliers within reach, you could haul him in on a 'felony possession of wirecutters' charge, impound his vehicle, and search it thoroughly.  A lot of lawyers got a shock when they found out a rural sheriff was holding their client(s) for having a pair of pliers in the car!  That also went out with the new Penal Code in '74.

 

[William E. Shaw]

B.S.  http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm

 

[Buck Grizzly]

It was written so well the state of Texas didn't even know it was against the law???