Gun rigs & Holsters

[BuckShot Chavez]

If you like to learn more about fast draw visit www.cowboyfastdraw.com you can read all about the six guns & holsters.

 

BuckShot Chavez

Old Pueblo Gunfighters

[Buck Grizzly]

First let me say, I have watched and enjoyed this sport. It is a family oriented activity, and it does require some skill, and lots of practice, but...

Most of those holsters are not "authentic" to the pre-1900's era. It's confusing enough for people just starting out to find the right gear and equipment especially if they are hoping to be as authentic as possible. Saying that those double lined, metal reinforced, cut-away drop loop holsters on a fancy curved drop looped belt without the slit in them, is authentic, doesn't make them authentic. Also the tie downs that are allowed in competition are not what would be considered to be "authentic" by any stretch of the imagination either. It doesn't really matter if that is what you all wish to use or allow, but you do nobody any justice by making the authentic claim.


Sorry, just my two cents on the matter.

[BuckShot Chavez]

LOL no your talking about worlds fast draw thy have the metal reinforced  holsters & the hot rod guns, not the Cowboy Fast Draw Association stock holsters, stock guns like I said look up the rules & regulation on the website this are not $3,000 guns or $1.000 rigs

[Buck Grizzly]

I'm talking about the holsters I have seen used and the one's very clearly shown on your websites video. Many of which are the same style Clint Eastwood used in the spaghetti trilogies, etc... I also made a holster for my son (who has competed here in Texas) according to the rules and specifications of your organization, and although it is acceptable for use in your organization, he cannot use it for reenactments because, alas, it isn't "period correct" or "authentic", whichever terminology you wish to use.

　

　

I have no problem with you using these styles of rigs, my complaint is your organization referring to them as "authentic". Now if by authentic you mean post1900 & on, then that would be correct but obviously it is misleading/confusing for individuals who are just starting out doing pre-1900, "old west authentic". In any case even if the holster is authentic (and I saw a few in the video that are much better interpretations) the tie-downs and the use of a spacing block to cock the positioning of the holster, are not "authentic".

　

　

Once again I mean no ill feelings towards you or your organization, I simply wish you would stop using the term “authentic”, unless they are actually a true interpretation of the styles from the pre-1900 era.

[Unkle Sherman]

Ya know Buck,

I've pretty much given up on preaching to gunfighters the difference between,

Living history presentations and shooting at targets in western apparel..

Most time the shooters period clothing isn't worn properly by 1800's standards,

Like fat guts hanging over the top of britches. when period correct is a hand width below

the 3rd button on the shirt. Neither are the weapons, tie downs etc.

Don't git me started...I could go on and on.. but most target shooters are there to shoot and really could care less about living history. Like you, I wish they wouldn't call what they do living history.

 

[Buck Grizzly]

I hear ya Unk. I'm really not trying to offend anyone either. If this is what they prefer/want to do more power to em, everybody isn't cracked up to being a thread Nazi (and I mean that in a kind way), as well as many are not cracked up to performing shows or acting out a particular character, and some folks just want to blow powder, that's fine with me, but let's all be honest about what we are doing and/or trying to accomplish here.

　

　

One individual in our group shoots with these guys regularly and I know many reenactors who also shoot, but they have their Cowboy Fast Draw rigs and they have their authentic rigs for reenacting. For them I am not so concerned since they know and understand the difference. The one's that do draw a concern are people who are mislead into believing that the high dollar equipment they have already invested in is authentic, and if they compete in our venue it creates totally unnecessary confusion and all the time/energy/effort to retrain them and their misinformed learned mind set wastes time that could be spent elsewhere.

[Unkle Sherman]

The  weapons I use for living history, have NEVER had a live round fired..

Keep them WAY separate from the ones I target shoot with..

 

 

[Buck Grizzly]

Me too, that's the way we were taught. I have guns for target shooting, guns for protection (also used for practice with live rounds), and guns for shows, and none of them get mixed.

[C. F. 'Charley' Eckhardt]

Most of the holsters I have seen from the late 1800s/early 1900s were of pretty flimsy leather.  Most of 'em were 'scabbards' rather than holsters.  They completely swallowed the pistol.  The first 'canted' holster was actually made for Texas Ranger captain John R. Hughes.  He was right handed, but got shot in the right elbow in his first gunfight as a Ranger.  It rendered his right arm useless for the rest of his life, so he completely retrained himself to be a southpaw.  He designed the holster in the late 1880s to facilitate getting his pistol out faster with his left hand.  Most of the modern 'cowboy fast draw' holsters are copies, to some extent, of the Tom Threepersons holster.  Tom was a lawman in Oklahoma in the teens of the last century.  He specifically designed the holster for a walking town lawman, so the iron could be unleathered in a hurry.  Incidentally, Tom was a full-blood Cherokee.  Back in the '50s somebody, in an article in the original TW, called him 'half-Cherokee.'  In a letter to Hosstail Small, which was put in the 'letters' column in the mag, Tom himself corrected that.

 

There were 2 Toms.  Tom Threepersons was the Oklahoma lawman.  Tom Three Persons was also a Cherokee, but he was a rodeo star in the '20s & '30s.

[Buck Grizzly]

I’ve yet to find any specific dates on this holster

 

 

 

http://www.curtrich.com/hughes.html



Caption of photo.

 

 

http://www.curtrich.com/rangerhof.html

 

 



This is a right-handed buscadero rig belonging to Capt. John R. Hughes. Hughes joined the rangers in 1887. In 1892 he was promoted to sergeant, replacing Bass Outlaw, who was dismissed for drinking on duty. In 1893 he replaced Captain Jones (George Baylor's son-in-law), who was killed in action. His ranger career was 28 years. The buscadero rig is right handed. Capt. Hughes, however, shot a pistol left handed. In an early gunfight he was wounded and lost full use of his right arm. The only photo I have of him showing his weapon shows a left-handed cross-draw holster. The weapon is on the right butt first. Allegedly buscadero rigs were invented in the 20's for the movies. This seems to predate those. The book Border Boss credits the design of the buscadero rig for Capt. Hughes. Why this one is right handed is a mystery to me.

　

　

So there is nothing that dates the holster or even proves it was his, other than the museum saying it was. Maybe it was a present from a holster maker, who didn’t realize he was a lefty (I‘ve done it on a couple occasions myself), based on his idea to have the holster secured by a slit in the cartridge belt to keep it from sliding around when riding hard on a horse in rough terrain. Most of the pros I’ve heard speculate this style dates back to the late 1890’s, but really didn’t catch on for a few more decades.

　

One thing I have noticed is when people want to use a particular item they search until they find a reasonable facsimile, then declare that is justification for using the modern item.

　

I would love to see some photos of the fabricated rigs used by guerillas in the Civil War., since they were known for carrying several arms on their person. Even John Wesley Hardin had a shoulder holster nobody else would be caught dead using, since they probably be if they tried, but he seemed to have mastered it enough to use it with confidence.

　

I’m sure there are individuals who fabricated some pretty bizarre looking stuff out of necessity that would in no way be considered “the norm” for the time period, but is that something that individuals trying to represent a particular want to use as representative of the era, or consider period correct?

　

　

What I don’t think people realize is that if a period correct rig is made correctly, and worn properly, with a few minor adjustments, you can get a gun out of the holster remarkably fast, without designing a period correct style with too many modern features. But like I said, too each his own as to what it is they are trying to accomplish. If it’s strictly for fun, then there should be no concern for period correct or time period museum quality representations. If you are trying to entertain/educate, be representative of a particular era, and have fun doing it, then you probably need to take a little extra time to make the effort count.

　

There are many styles represented in the book Packin Iron that are rarely represented in the reenactment community (I think that is more about how they look). A lot of that has to do with the limited number of patterns used by holster makers and the availability/cost when somebody is just starting out. Then once they grow accustomed to the modern style representations they continue to use them, even if they are not 100% correct. Suppliers are fixed on customers of the CW, era, and outfitting S.A.S.S. style organizations, so if it looks close it is becoming acceptable, so most folks are simply getting what is readily available.

 

 

[Unkle Sherman]

I thought a buscaderorig had tiedowns strings hangoff the end?

don't see 'rm on that rig.

[Buck Grizzly]

The way it was explained to me was a buscadero rig is a rig with the slit for the holster to fit into so it doesn't slip around the back while riding horseback. Tie downs are rarely mentioned until the low slung slit/drop loop set the holster lower on the leg and the tiedown was added to keep the holster from holding onto the gun when you pulled it.

　

　

The rig that Commodore Perry wears is sometimes used as an example of an early buscadero, because it appears to fastened or attached to the belt, like this holster of Capt Hughes.

　

　

We had a small discussion on that a while back but there never was a general consensus as to what exactly constitutes a "buskadero" rig, so we have conflicting opinions as to what one really is.

[BuckShot Chavez]

The "buskadero rig" is a creation of Hollywood.